Catboat Forum

Cheaper Alternatives . . .

Posted By: George Haycraft, Picnic Cat #29
Date: 6/4/08 7:21p.m.

Report: outside forum guidelines

In Response To: Gene, & Any Interested Winching Parties: (pic) (Vicki's Winch Dilemma)

Vicki, first, I agree with Tom and John. Thereafter, if you feel you still need additional mechanical advantage, a simple and cheap change to a 2:1 throat halyard may be all the extra help you need. Beyond that, the Herreshoff Halyard offers a 3:1 very cheaply as well.
Text for Herreshoff Halyard: For those looking to easily tension the main halyard without the expense of adding a winch, this works. Carefully make the length of the halyard part so the double becket block is snug at the masthead when the sail is down and covered, so the block doesn't bang about while at anchor or moored. The diagram and text following are from the old Small Boat Journal, May, 1980.
"What I call the Herreshoff halyard is a type shown in the plan for L. Francis Herreshoff's H-28 ketoh. The H-28 which I own is rigged with them and they work well. Since l've never seem the rig on another designer's boat, I've taken the liberty of calling it a Herreshoff halyard. In Herreshoff's design, he specified that the actual halyard be of 3/16" 6xl9 wire, but I think that if he were doing the job today he'd specify prestretched Dacron. Either way, it requires a halyard made up of two parts, a single block with both upper and lower beckets, and an open cheek block fastened to the mast.
A normal single-part halyard is twice as long as the height of the mast, so that when the sail is lowered the halyard can reach the deck, go up to the masthead, through the masthead block and back down to the deck. The Herreshoff rig is made up of a halyard and a hauling part, but each one is only the length of the mast, so that total length of line required is the same as a single-part haiyard. The halyard and hauling part are joined at the single block, as shown in Fig. 2. As you can see from the drawing, the sail will be hauled up without any mechanical advantage, which is all right for all but very large boats, because a Dacron marconi rigged sail just isn't very heavy. The mechanicai advantage is needed only at the end to set the halyard up hard, and that is where you get the advantage with this ng.
When the sail is down, that peculiar block arrangement is alI the way up at the masthead, but as you haul up the sail, the block oomes down so that just as the sail is nearly taut, you can reach up and pull a bight of the hauling part out through the single block, and loop it around the cheek block which is fastened to the mast, as shown in Fig. 3. You now have a triple purchase on the halyard, and set it up quite hard. By swigging up on the hauling part, you can set the rig to twanging." by Steven Olson

Messages In This Thread

Gene, & Any Interested Winching Parties: -- Vicki's Winch Dilemma -- 6/4/08 4:58p.m.

Sorry, winch wench -- Tom Ray -- 6/4/08 5:29p.m.

Before you spend the $$ -- John, Suncat "Wanderer" -- 6/4/08 6:29p.m.

I agree with John -- Tom Ray -- 6/5/08 3:09a.m.

Is that what those rods are for -- to guide the halyard? -- Vicki's Winch Dilemma -- 6/5/08 12:37p.m.

John, reefing lines are not tight and no mainsheet -- Vicki's Winch Dilemma -- 6/5/08 12:34p.m.

Kewl, NO need to Jump into the Frying Pan, just -- geneWj,First Born & Teacher's Pet III. Bradenton,Fl. -- 6/5/08 12:49p.m.

I'll talk to you before I leap! -- Winch Wench -- 6/5/08 2:21p.m.

Hey Gene, if it's not storming tonight with the lightning, -- Winch Wench -- 6/5/08 2:22p.m.

Sorrrrrrrrrry! I am working until 01:00 am. Will be available -- geneWj,First Born & Teacher's Pet III. Bradenton,Fl. -- 6/5/08 2:40p.m.

P.S. I like U'r new Handle.LMAO!! -- geneWj,First Born & Teacher's Pet III. Bradenton,Fl. -- 6/5/08 2:43p.m.

This has been a neat discussion. and what this board is all about! -- geneWj,First Born & Teacher's Pet III. Bradenton,Fl. -- 6/5/08 2:46p.m.

I sure tied everyone up, didn't I??? Winch Wench: coined by Tom Ray -- Winch Wench -- 6/5/08 3:16p.m.

U'r BAAAAAAAAAD, Tom. but I like it whether Vicki uses one or NOT! -- geneWj,First Born & Teacher's Pet III. Bradenton,Fl. -- 6/6/08 7:59a.m.

-- Tom Ray -- 6/6/08 11:41a.m.

Cheaper Alternatives . . . -- George Haycraft, Picnic Cat #29 -- 6/4/08 7:21p.m.

From Stephen Luta -- Stephen / SW Florida / Looking Forward -- 6/4/08 8:02p.m.

No college boys, Stephen! No baloney; want to do this myself. -- Vicki's Winch Dilemma -- 6/5/08 12:47p.m.

As I've indicated! If U need mechanical support get it! -- geneWj,First Born & Teacher's Pet III. Bradenton,Fl. -- 6/4/08 10:44p.m.

Gene, last summer a nice strong male raised -- Winch Wench -- 6/5/08 12:58p.m.

I agree w/the guys.... -- Craig D,Suncat, Cattitude, Finger Lakes -- 6/5/08 5:55a.m.

vickie -- bob -- 6/5/08 8:17a.m.

Explain how a boomkicker would work, Craig. Thanks. -- Winch Wench -- 6/5/08 1:01p.m.

Not a boomkicker guy! -- Craig D,Suncat, Cattitude, Finger Lakes -- 6/5/08 4:03p.m.

You just talked me out of even researching it. Thanks. -- Winch Wench -- 6/6/08 9:15a.m.

Vicki, the last couple of feet don't add much load -- Carl, Horizon Cat/Picnic Cat, Central Texas -- 6/5/08 6:55a.m.

Carl, I'll address each of your points: -- Winch Wench -- 6/5/08 1:11p.m.

Carl, this is easier to read: -- Winch Wench -- 6/5/08 1:13p.m.

For God's sake, read THIS ONE instead of the above 2 posts!!! -- Winch Wench -- 6/5/08 1:18p.m.

Well, shoot -- Carl, Horizon Cat/Picnic Cat, Central Texas -- 6/5/08 3:07p.m.

No gaff gooseneck, Carl... it's up there on a block. -- Winch Wench -- 6/6/08 9:17a.m.

Square One Problems . . . -- George Haycraft, Picnic Cat #29 -- 6/6/08 9:48a.m.

So much for standardization! George, I've -- Winch Wench -- 6/6/08 11:30a.m.

Picture -- John- Suncat "Wanderer" in Ontario Canada -- 6/6/08 11:47a.m.

John, my Sun Cat is a 2006? What's your boat -- Winch Wench -- 6/6/08 12:13p.m.

2005 -- John- Suncat "Wanderer" in Ontario Canada -- 6/9/08 5:58a.m.

That triple halyard setup -- Tom Ray -- 6/6/08 12:16p.m.

Hey, thanks, Tom. I didn't think the Triple Purchase -- Winch Wench -- 6/6/08 1:44p.m.

Picture of 2:1 -- Tom Ray -- 6/7/08 4:19a.m.

Gee, Tom, Purty Pitcher ! ! -- George Haycraft, Picnic Cat #29 -- 6/7/08 10:35a.m.

Love the intellectualism, George! -- Winch Wench -- 6/7/08 11:51a.m.

Excellent! I appreciate the careful drawing. I'll -- Winch Wench -- 6/7/08 11:50a.m.

Please tell me the difference between this and 1:1 -- geneWj,First Born & Teacher's Pet III. Bradenton,Fl. -- 6/7/08 1:50p.m.

The red part in the pic is 2:1 -- Tom Ray -- 6/7/08 2:33p.m.

Hmmm... -- Carl, Horizon Cat/Picnic Cat, Central Texas -- 6/6/08 3:46p.m.

Carl, read Tom Ray's post just 2 above this one. -- Winch Wench -- 6/6/08 7:10p.m.

I saw that, but I'm not sure why that has to be -- Carl, Horizon Cat/Picnic Cat, Central Texas -- 6/6/08 8:15p.m.

It's in "Cheaper Alternatives" by GH above -- Tom Ray -- 6/7/08 4:38a.m.

Gosh Vicki, U need to raise the upper throat halyard block -- geneWj,First Born & Teacher's Pet III. Bradenton,Fl. -- 6/6/08 3:18p.m.

If U look at First Born's mast U will see the blocks are well above the top of -- geneWj,First Born & Teacher's Pet III. Bradenton,Fl. -- 6/6/08 7:36p.m.

Engineering dilemma -- George Haycraft, Picnic Cat #29 -- 6/6/08 10:22p.m.

George may be on to something! -- Craig D,Suncat, Cattitude, Finger Lakes -- 6/7/08 8:16a.m.

Craig, since they repaired my boat last autumn, -- Winching Party -- 6/7/08 12:37p.m.

Further Thoughts. -- George Haycraft, Picnic Cat #29 -- 6/7/08 10:19a.m.

George! If Winch Wench's drawing is Correct! then -- geneWj,First Born & Teacher's Pet III. Bradenton,Fl. -- 6/7/08 11:27a.m.

Oh thank God you said what you said about friction, -- Winching Party -- 6/7/08 12:42p.m.

George, thanks for your sketches... I can't look -- Winching Party -- 6/7/08 12:41p.m.

Winch wench, pay attention to this -- Tom Ray -- 6/7/08 2:46p.m.

Gotcha. This will have to be carefully configured. -- Victoria's Little Secret -- 6/9/08 1:15p.m.

George, -- Winching Party -- 6/7/08 12:35p.m.

Have you dropped he mast? -- Craig D, Suncat, "Cattitude", Finger Lakes -- 6/7/08 3:49p.m.

Craig, I intend to drop the mast one more time -- Victoria's Little Secret -- 6/9/08 1:21p.m.

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