When You Need A Surveyor
Part II: The Hunt
by Norm Laskay
Go to part 1...
Finding a surveyor is like finding a doctor, lawyer, auto mechanic or plumber. Finding a good surveyor is like finding a good doctor, a good lawyer, a good auto mechanic, or a good plumber.
Somewhere along the line, in some science type of class, we were all introduced to the Fire Triangle and the three legs that were necessary to support combustion. Let me introduce to you the Comfort Triangle. These are the three legs that should help you to have a level of comfort that you chose the right surveyor. The legs are "Word Of Mouth", Credentials, and Due Diligence. If you use all three, you will probably choose the best that is available. If you use Due Diligence with any one of the other two your odds are very good for finding the best available. Using "Word Of Mouth" and Credentials may get you a good surveyor, but one that may not be the best for you and/or the job at hand. If you use only "Word of Mouth" OR Credentials you have the proverbial pig in a poke. Finally, if you are serious about Due Diligence, you will inquire about credentials and references and we come full circle, or in this case, full triangle.
Word Of Mouth
Someone used them and they were good. That won't cut it. You need to bring it closer. Someone you know, and whose opinion you trust, used them for what specific purpose, on what kind of boat, and found them to be very thorough and professional. That is the kind of information that you want to use to measure the surveyor, against your needs, with a known yard stick. Get the views of as many trusted acquaintances as you can, preferably before you need a surveyor. This is simple. We should do it before we need the doctor, lawyer, auto mechanic and plumber, but we don't.
Credentials
In the yacht survey business there are surveyors who choose to not have "credentials". They may be those known as staff surveyors. Staff surveyors are those who work directly for an insurance company and only do surveys on the company's specific accounts. They are not for hire. (Out sourcing has hit the insurance companies and these surveyors are a vanishing breed.) However, there are staff surveyors who have chosen to acquire credentials. The two sets of credentials in the United States market are the Certificated Marine Surveyor(CMS) from the National Association of Marine Surveyors(NAMS) and the Accredited Marine Surveyor(AMS) from the Society of Accredited Marine Surveyors(SAMS). Surveyor unaffiliated with either NAMS or SAMS are often referred to as independents.
What does CMS or AMS mean and is one better than the other?
Credentials do not mean competency. You probably know incompetent MDs, ESQs(lawyers), licensed and bonded electricians, etc. There are independents who are extremely qualified and credentialed surveyors that I couldn't recommend to anyone. Being credentialed by NAMS or SAMS means that you have gone through a screening process, have five years of experience, have taken a professional exam, and that you need ongoing education hours for re-certification. Credentialed membership also means that an unhappy customer can bring a grievance against you to the governing body, and if the grievance is of consequence, and found valid, your credentials can be revoked.
NAMS is the more mature of the two groups having been founded in 1960 to raise the professional level of marine surveyors. It is made up of ship, cargo and yacht surveyors. By the mid 1980's written examinations were being given to candidates testing them in their individual fields. The CMS designation is a personal designation, and only a currently certified CMS can advertise that accreditation.
SAMS is a newer group that is mostly made up of yacht surveyors. They have put into place similar pre-requisites and testing as has been in use by NAMS. SAMS makes available excellent training opportunities to its membership in subjects relating to yachts and yacht surveying. Because the group is relatively new, many members were "grandfathered" in without examination, and others advertise themselves as SAMS members while being candidates and not fully AMS. Again, this does not mean a lack of competency. But, before you put too much stock in anyone's credentials, ask about the person and the education behind the credentials. Feel free to contact the NAMS or SAMS office with your questions. If a surveyor is claiming something that he/she has not earned the national organization will be interested. This is called due diligence.
Briefly, there is a third set of credentials called an Accredited Senior Appraiser (ASA) issued by the American Society of Appraisers (ASA). This is a fairly time consuming and expensive accreditation and is maintained by surveyors who do a lot of marine appraisal work for large national and international financial groups and court work.
Due Diligence
After reading what is above, you should have a good idea of what you need to do. One thing you should not do, is buy by price, low or high.
Most surveyors try to be competitive. But there has to be at least two tiers. The individual who is retired from one job and works out of a bedroom or garage does not have the overhead of a group that pays for office space and secretaries. The former may put the fees wherever they want while the latter has to meet payroll. So why should you pay extra for someone's overhead? If they both can provide competent service, maybe you shouldn't. But it is in your interest that they both have liability insurance should something happen on your boat or on your property. You should be interested that they have a history in the business and in your community. If something does go wrong will there be anything to place a claim against? Due diligence is asking "what if?"
Find out what your report will look like and if it is what you are expecting. Many surveyors do a full narrative type report (time consuming), others a self produced modified check off sheet(usually detailed for the type survey being done), and others a one size fits all check off sheet that may also be your report. Any one of these may satisfy your needs or the needs of a third party, but it make sense to ask first, pay later. (This is stated in a figurative sense. Most yacht surveys are billed on a C.O.D. basis) One fact should not come as a shock to you. The bigger the boat, the more expensive they are to maintain. This includes the survey fee. But the bigger the boat, and fee, the bigger and more detailed report you should expect from your surveyor, particularly for pre-purchase and C&V.
The final area of due diligence is for those of you, mainly the trailer boaters, who live near inland lakes where there is not enough "critical mass" to support a competitive marine surveyors market. Surveyors with a monopoly are generally wise enough to stay out of trouble as they have to live around their customers. But staying out of trouble does not mean that they are competent. Don't be intimidated. You don't have to be knowledgeable about plumbing or carpentry to ask a plumber or carpenter for references before you engage them.
A marine surveyor is offering a service and should treat you like a valued customer, not a fool. You are hiring one for their expertise and you want to get the expertise that you need. If you have shopped wisely you can then use the information you have purchased with a high level of comfort.
Go to part 1...
by Norm Laskay
nlaskay@portlite.com
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