Political Corner

Could be, but I don't think so

Posted By: Carl, Horizon Cat/Picnic Cat, Central Texas
Date: 6/26/08 12:45p.m.

Report: outside forum guidelines

In Response To: You're reading it with a different mind set than the framers. (nm) (Wilton, NJ No Boat)

Federalist 46 defends the idea of a standing army, arguing that it could not be an instrument of tyranny. Madison posits a situation where the individual state governments become opposed to the federal government, and the federal army is massed 'for the projects of ambition.' He continues:
Extravagant as the supposition is, let it however be made. Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the danger. The highest number to which, according to the best computation, a standing army can be carried in any country, does not exceed one hundredth part of the whole number of souls; or one twenty-fifth part of the number able to bear arms. This proportion would not yield, in the United States, an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops. Those who are best acquainted with the last successful resistance of this country against the British arms, will be most inclined to deny the possibility of it.

I don't carry guns, I just have a right to do so, erroneously infringed by any number of laws. There are also reasonable and completely lawful limits on all rights.
Personally, the importance to me is far beyond the right to arms. That comment on the footnote on page 9 or 10 of the Supreme Court decision, countering an argument that Stevens made, that's what the Second Amendment seems to bring forth. Stevens, I suppose, at some point tried to argue the First Amendment right to petition the government was primarly a collective, not an individual right.
Far safer to let Bubba tuck a .38 under his ample gut than it is to let individual rights degrade into collective rights. I guess that's why the Second Amendment has long had my attention. It seems to put a certain focus on liberty and freedom.
I must be an odd duck. I don't even really care much for guns. Haven't fired one in a long, long time.
If I have a point I'd like to make it's to keep our country based on strong philosophy, not compromise the good people of our nation at every individual misdeed.

Messages In This Thread

DC residents' handgun ban declared unconstitutional... -- observer -- 6/26/08 8:38a.m.

Next up: Chicago -- Tom Ray -- 6/26/08 9:03a.m.

That was quick! -- Tom Ray -- 6/29/08 5:29a.m.

So... Marshall Dillon was violating the constitution?? -- Francois -- 6/26/08 9:23a.m.

Amazing four voted in dissent -- Carl, Horizon Cat/Picnic Cat, Central Texas -- 6/26/08 9:47a.m.

I find it amazing too. -- Alan Russell -- 6/26/08 10:02a.m.

You're reading it with a different mind set than the framers. -- Wilton, NJ No Boat -- 6/26/08 10:46a.m.

Could be, but I don't think so -- Carl, Horizon Cat/Picnic Cat, Central Texas -- 6/26/08 12:45p.m.

The intent of the 2nd Amendment was to -- Wilton, NJ No Boat -- 6/26/08 5:35p.m.

Could be important if Obama is elected. Boston Tea Party all over again. -- Brian, Precision 23, Lake Lanier, GA -- 6/26/08 9:33p.m.

you never spent any time in the military, did you? -- Jay -- 6/27/08 3:39a.m.

So then going back to the original intent of the 2nd Amendment -- Wilton, NJ No Boat -- 6/27/08 3:53a.m.

Actually I think the work "press" is -- Jeff, Reinell 2200 -- 6/27/08 4:50a.m.

Nice try -- Wilton, NJ No Boat -- 6/27/08 5:30a.m.

Many people feel the wine press frees -- Jeff, Reinell 2200 -- 6/27/08 5:48a.m.

For protection against crime, Wilton! Most people don't own guns for protection -- Robb, Great Dane 28, Yankee Dolphin, Lake Superior -- 6/27/08 8:42a.m.

That's fine but that's not the intent of the 2nd Amendment -- Wilton, NJ No Boat -- 6/27/08 8:44a.m.

Because you have a false sense of security and are naive -- Jay -- 6/28/08 3:15a.m.

You assume too much. -- Wilton, NJ No Boat -- 6/28/08 3:56a.m.

What is hypocritical about strict construction and the 2nd amendment? -- Jay -- 6/28/08 3:07a.m.

MacAurthur dispatched the citizen bonus army, or did you forget -- Arlyn Stewart -- 6/28/08 4:14a.m.

how soon we forget... -- dave -- 6/27/08 4:39a.m.

I'm sure you've seen the news clips -- Jeff, Reinell 2200 -- 6/27/08 4:53a.m.

too much faith in -- dave -- 6/27/08 5:16a.m.

By what twisted stretch of the imagination -- Jeff, Reinell 2200 -- 6/27/08 5:53a.m.

please..that disaster was an obvious call for strong federal response -- dave -- 6/27/08 6:23a.m.

I was looking at it from the standpoint -- Jeff, Reinell 2200 -- 6/27/08 7:54a.m.

There is enough blame to go around. -- Clyde - Houston, TX -- 6/28/08 11:27a.m.

And local/state goverments are supposed to be prepared for 3 days of self suport -- Alan Russell -- 6/28/08 11:41a.m.

Alan, you can usually be rational. These statements show a lot of misinformation -- norm BlackWatch cat/Hartley 16 -- 6/29/08 3:44p.m.

I've been invovled in the meetings. -- Alan Russell -- 6/30/08 10:41a.m.

Everyone has plans. But "the city fell apart before"? I don't understand that -- norm BlackWatch cat/Hartley 16 -- 7/1/08 11:38a.m.

It was well established before hand that the levees would fail. -- Alan Russell -- 7/1/08 12:11p.m.

That was the Militia -- Clyde - Houston, TX -- 6/28/08 11:13a.m.

Well, I didn't say arms couldn't be controlled -- Carl, Horizon Cat/Picnic Cat, Central Texas -- 6/27/08 7:18a.m.

NO Carl you can't do that. Fighting against the standing army will get you -- Wilton, NJ No Boat -- 6/27/08 7:28a.m.

No doubt. It's not something I'm exactly itching to do, anyway. -- Carl, Horizon Cat/Picnic Cat, Central Texas -- 6/27/08 8:02a.m.

Four Dillons maybe????? -- Francois -- 6/26/08 11:56a.m.

It can be changed. But it is difficult, and for good reason. -- Alan Russell -- 6/26/08 12:29p.m.

This may come as a suprise to you Francois -- Jeff, Reinell 2200 -- 6/26/08 1:36p.m.

Now stop it right there fella.... -- Francois -- 6/26/08 1:50p.m.

It might be amazing were it not for the fact... -- Mike -- 6/26/08 1:38p.m.

Exactly. Like most things, the answer isn't as simplistic as people would like. -- Noemi - Ensenada 20 -- 6/26/08 2:26p.m.

Ok, I see that, but consider the context -- Carl, Horizon Cat/Picnic Cat, Central Texas -- 6/26/08 3:03p.m.

If DC said, ok we will do a spot check each year of 1,000 registered handguns -- Arlyn Stewart -- 6/26/08 3:34p.m.

District of Columbia v. Heller, 07-290 -- Clyde - Houston, TX -- 6/26/08 6:15p.m.

I accepted the statement about trigger locks but grew confused this evening -- Arlyn Stewart -- 6/28/08 7:55p.m.

US Supreme Court Ruling on District of Columbia v Heller, 07-290 -- Clyde - Houston, TX -- 6/28/08 8:59p.m.

Thanks Clyde... -- Arlyn Stewart -- 6/29/08 10:42a.m.

Were you listening to this conversation in person -- Jeff, Reinell2200 -- 6/29/08 4:35a.m.

I've no way of knowing if NRA comments were editied out -- Arlyn Stewart -- 6/29/08 8:46a.m.

I am about as pro 2nd as you can get, however -- Jeff, Reinell2200 -- 6/29/08 6:14p.m.

how about mandatory gun safety education in public schools? -- observer -- 6/29/08 9:08p.m.

Never happen, too much common sense! -- Anonymous Sailor -- 6/29/08 9:15p.m.

It was offered where I went to school -- Jeff, Reinell 2200 -- 6/30/08 4:07a.m.

Sweet! Wish more states had programs like that! -- Anonymous Sailor -- 6/30/08 2:22p.m.

I think I would put it this way.... -- observer -- 6/26/08 6:18p.m.

don't you think that kind of has changed over time though with the development -- dave -- 6/27/08 5:05a.m.

I applaud a decision -- Arlyn Stewart -- 6/26/08 11:37a.m.

Drug dealers around the country celebrate with half price sales! -- Bob K -- 6/27/08 5:24a.m.

I'm sure if the decision went the other way they ... -- BrandonC, Tulsa - Cal21 -- 6/27/08 9:12a.m.

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