P-19 reef point compilation

Posted By: Chuck Pierce P19 #1408 Aldebaran SE Tx
Date: 7/2/09 8:55p.m.

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In Response To: Location of 2nd set of reef points? (Eric, WWP-19 and Zuma, Austin, TX)

Hey, guys-The 2nd reef point on Aldebaran is at 66” above the tack. This is higher than recommended, but we sail in high winds sometimes and it has proven to have been a good move for the type of sailing we do. I bought the Sailrite (NOT Sail Care as I sent in your e-mails) kit and spent 2 weeks of evenings with a sewing palm hand sewing the reinforcements and grommet supports in. A sewing machine with a walking foot and enough oomph to punch through 3-5 layers of sail cloth would make things MUCH easier. Here is what someone (I am sorry I don’t remember who) on the TrailerSailer Potter board compiled and sent to me- Chuck Just above the second batten, or about 4'9' (57 inches) above the tack (the bottom, forward corner of the mainsail). That should reduce the mainsail area by about 50%. Your batten position may dictate a slight adjustment from these measurements, depending on who made your sail. Sailcare.com does nice work, or try any local sail loft with a good reputation. Fair winds, Judy B http://www.sailrite.com/PDF/JiffyReef.pdf Sailrite suggests that the "intermediate reef points" (between the luff and the leech) be installed 3/4" of an inch up from the others. They also suggest that the leech grommet be a little higher than the luff, so that the boom end is higher in rough weather, so that it can't get caught in waves. I've never seen a sail with intermediate reef points the way they suggest, with loops of cloth for attaching a bungee. Usually, there are grommets for use with short pieces of thin line for tying up the "slab" of extra cloth that hangs down when the reef is in. I can't personally vouch for it, but Sailrite sells a lot of kits for sail repair and DIY. The "classical" locations of reef provide for a 25% reduction of sail area for the first reef, and a 50% reduction for the second (but this can vary widely according to the boat and sailplan). That corresponds to locations approximately 12% and 25% along the luff up from the boom. On my P19 and Jerry Barrilleaux's HMS 18, the deep reef is about 4'9" (57") up along the luff. Jerry doesn't have a 1st reef in his sail, but I do, at about 2'5" up. Also, for some great info on how to reef, take a look at http://www.sailmaker.com/articles/reefing.htm Fair winds, Judy B The second reef for the Potter 19 works well at about 4'9" along the luff. I got that by measuring Jerry Barrilleaux's sails. That puts it at 25% of the luff dimension; a reef point in this location reduces sail area by about 50%. On the factory mainsail, that's between the first and second batten. The first picture below is Chris Beatty's "Deep Blue" with the factory mainsail. You can see the 2nd reef point location. The second picture is the sailplan meaurements of Jerry B's suit of sails. Jerry has only one reef in his mainsail, a deep one at 4'9". (BTW, the jib labelled 110% is the lapper. And it is NOT a 110%, it's about a 98% LP.) The third picture is the custom mainsail on my P19 Redwing. I think both reefs on my mainsail are a little deeper than the factory ones... but I forget exactly ... Fair winds, Judy B The reefing eyes are not as heavily reinforced as the clew and tack fastenings are on Potter 19 and 15 sails.. if you tie the reef points around the boom ( and undoubtedly you would be in high winds if you had chosen to reef down) you will stretch the mainsail into a much less efficient shape, permanently. The reef ties are only there on a loose footed sail to get the slab of sail cloth rolled up so you can see better. ( the boat will sail reefed, without tieing up the slab.. just looks sloppy ). The aft reef clew point becomes the new attachment point when you pull in the reef. No need to unfasten the outhaul clew. Bruce Bruce Hood, P-15 "Aillte", sail no. 1246 Here is my collection of quotes, etc by Judy Blumhorst on the P-19 "Reefing Dimensions". You can search for these in the archives. Reefing Dimensions “Your first reef is most likely approximately 12% of the way up the luff, and reduces sail area by approx 25%. If that's the case, you should put the second reef approximately 25% of the way up the luff and reduce sail area by approximately 50%. You'll have to adjust the percentages if 25% is right near the second batten. If it's just below the batten, move the reef up so it's just above the batten; it won't hurt you if the reef reduces the luff by a little more than 25%. Hoever, don't make the 2nd reef so deep that the headboard of the mainsail is significantly below the forestay. That would tend to cause the mast to invert (bend backwards in the middle, and decrease mast stability. The second reef is just above the second batten, or about 4'9' (57 inches) above the tack (the bottom, forward corner of the mainsail). That should reduce the mainsail area by about 50%. That puts it at 25% of the luff dimension; a reef point in this location reduces sail area by about 50%. On the factory mainsail, that's between the first and second batten. Your batten position may dictate a slight adjustment from these measurements, depending on who made your sail. Remember that you need to keep the sail plan balanced when you have the second reef in. You'll want to use the small (32 s.f.) jib or roll up the lapper from its original area (60 s.f.) to as small as you can without making it baggy with a deep draft. You can probably roll it up to about 40 s.f.; past that and it'll probably get pretty baggy and cause the boat to heel alot in the gusts. But all of that depends on how your headsail is cut. You'll need a second reef (reduces mainsail area by about 50%) to sail in winds over 25-30 knots. A first reef (reduces sail area by about 25%) is handy over about 18 knots, and necessary by 22 knots. “ -quotes and paraphrases of Judy Blumhorst archived posts.