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Thanks Darrel. You da Man! You made the rescue. Your story gives good lessons

Posted By: Carl P-19 #1432 "Dagmar" on SF Bay
Date: 5/27/10 11:14p.m.

Report: outside forum guidelines

In Response To: My thoughts (pic) (Darrel Heirendt com-pac 16 SweetGeorgia Brown)

Your telling the story provides great value to all of us: to those it could happen to and to those who may have to help those whom it happens to.

This is all "Monday Morning Quarterbacking": it's easy to analyze from the comfort of your living room easy chair; but a lot tougher when all he_ _ is breaking loose, with howling winds ripping the sails, waves rocking the boat, raw emotions pumping up the adrenalin, and having to reactto a threatening situation by making split second decisions.

For the purposes of learning lessons from all this, here is what I come up with (please correct me if I am mistaken or misstating anything):

I. Factors contributing to capsize and turtle:

A. Strong and gusty winds maximize risk of blowdown

B. Sail area not sufficiently reduced in advance (reef early; reef often)

C. Centerboard not locked down tight enough to provide resistive force and survive rotation. Retracted centerboard made it difficult or impossible to exert counter-rotational force to prevent turtling or turn boat upright.

D. Cabin hatch door not locked down to keep water out of cabin and prevent swamping on knockdown. If hatch locked, air buoyancy in cabin would have righted boat or made it easier. Cabin swamping caused loss of stability by lowering center of buoyancy, increasing tendency to turtle and difficulty of keeping boat upright.

E. Bow not turned into wind when standing up to reach for mainsail/jib sheet to reef, and gust hits at vulnerable moment to initiate blowdown. (I am assuming the skipper fell to leeward increasing the rotation to capsize).

II. Factors Increasing Difficulty of Recovery

A. Cabin hatch door off and swamping decreases stability and increases tendency to roll and re-capsize/re-turtle after righted.

B. Not having Centerboard locked down has same effect

C. Not loosening sail sheets and taking down sails before righting allows wind to re-capsize boat once righted. Might possibly also have been minimized if bow of boat into the wind.

D. Bailing made more difficult by water re-entering through centerboard slot and over sides; could have possibly stuffed with towel or something else to increase bailing effectiveness.

III.Good Actions in Effecting Rescue

A. Dropping sail and starting motor of rescuing vessel to increase control.

B. Cautious approach to rescued vessel and analyze situation before acting.

C. First ensuring rescued vessel's crew is safe, not physically compromised or in danger.

D. Getting a line on the opposite rail to right turtled vessel to right it.

E. Dropping the sails on the rescued vessel to prevent repeat blowdowns.

F. Lashing the side of the rescued boat to the side of the rescuing boat to solve the rolling instability problem.

Question: Would having another rescuing boat lashed to the opposite side have helped more? Since the Sheriff's boat lashed on and motored, perhaps another one of our boats could have done the same thing.

G. Throwing anchor to stop drifting of rescued and rescuing boats while bailing efforts were ongoing. Lesson: we should have our anchors ready to deploy.

Question: Would starting the motor on the rescuing boat have been effective? Or would it have caused problems? (prop. fouled on lines, etc.)

H. Contact and notifying other boats of situation and requesting help. In the Clipper Cove Rescue effected by Steve Potter, he said afterward that he should have communicated situation at outset before he started his rescue, so in case the rescue went bad he would have back up on the way.

There's always something that we can try to learn from each case so that hopefully if the situation ever confronts us again or someone who reads our thoughts and discussions, some of these observations and ideas may do some good by helping prevent or get out of a bad situation or helping someone save someone else from such a situation. Lesson: we should have communications equipment and people to call ready for quick deployment, and/or sail with a buddy in sight.

I know no one is going to remember all this, but if just one of these lessons learned sticks in someone's head long enought to make a difference, then it is all worth it.

FINAL ANALYSIS OF THIS CASE: PROMPT RESPONSIBLE ACTION TAKEN, SITUATION ACCURATELY ASSESSED, SUCCESSFUL RESCUE AND RECOVERY EFFECTED, NO ONE HURT, PROPERTY SAVED, SITUATION NOT MADE WORSE BY RASH CONDUCT.

THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR PUTTING OUR HEADS TOGETHER TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WE CAN LEARN FROM ALL THIS.

Messages In This Thread

Turtle Rx: Any Thoughts on Best Practices for Assisting P15 Recovery? -- Carl P-19 #1432 "Dagmar" on SF Bay -- 5/26/10 10:45a.m.
Well -- Tim"Morning Dove" P19 #457 -- 5/26/10 1:52p.m.
Thanks Tim, the bailing while doing a slow tow or with side stabilizing . . . -- Carl P-19 #1432 "Dagmar" on SF Bay -- 5/26/10 11:43p.m.
Other turtle tales -- Harry Gordon, wwp 14 #234, Mtn. View, CA -- 5/26/10 3:23p.m.
Could a P15 be unturtled from another boat using the mainsheet . . . -- Carl P-19 #1432 "Dagmar" on SF Bay -- 5/26/10 11:17p.m.
Righting a turtle -- Don Person -- 5/27/10 10:26a.m.
Thanks Don, not an option in your case & risk of structural damage in others -- Carl P-19 #1432 "Dagmar" on SF Bay -- 5/27/10 12:49p.m.
Thank you Harry fo your fine article on turtling and the linked cases ... -- Carl P-19 #1432 "Dagmar" on SF Bay -- 5/27/10 12:34a.m.
P 15 capsize -- Eric Hughes -- 5/26/10 7:09p.m.
Eric, bilge pumps are nice, but... -- Jerry - "Lia" Bull's Eye #918 - SF Bay -- 5/26/10 8:24p.m.
Manual emergency pump -- Tim"Morning Dove" P19 #457 -- 5/26/10 8:52p.m.
P19 Manual Bilge Pump -- Tom Emrey -- 5/27/10 6:19a.m.
Plastimo , 10-12gpm, 1 1/2 hose -- Tim"Morning Dove" P19 #457 -- 5/27/10 6:38a.m.
cheap buckets.... -- goose p14#164 -- 5/26/10 10:07p.m.
Thanks Eric, all good observations . . . -- Carl P-19 #1432 "Dagmar" on SF Bay -- 5/27/10 12:46a.m.
P 15 capsize -- Eric Hughes -- 5/26/10 8:05p.m.
Not sure why that double posted, sorry -- Eric Hughes -- 5/26/10 8:10p.m.
Woodward P 15 capsize -- Pam Griggs -- 5/26/10 9:35p.m.
Pam and Dave, you could not have been with a better group of sailors to help you -- Carl P-19 #1432 "Dagmar" on SF Bay -- 5/27/10 12:57a.m.
I think I can speak for ... -- Dan Ricker -- 5/27/10 8:39a.m.
#1. Righting Tips: link to article on righting a capsized dinghy... -- Carl P-19 #1432 "Dagmar" on SF Bay -- 5/26/10 10:06p.m.
My thoughts -- Darrel Heirendt com-pac 16 SweetGeorgia Brown -- 5/27/10 2:21p.m.
Thoughts -- Don Person -- 5/27/10 5:56p.m.
turtle tamer -- goose p14#164 -- 5/27/10 7:36p.m.
Mast floats -- Katie Taylor -- 5/27/10 9:34p.m.
Hobie Float on Potter and Another Option -- Harry Gordon, wwp 14 #234, Mtn. View, CA -- 5/28/10 11:55a.m.
Tiller away from the trouble -- Nick S -- 5/28/10 5:24p.m.
Tiller trouble -- Don Person -- 5/28/10 6:31p.m.
 Thanks Darrel. You da Man! You made the rescue. Your story gives good lessons   -- Carl P-19 #1432 "Dagmar" on SF Bay -- 5/27/10 11:14p.m.
Thanks Darrel -- Dan Phy -- 5/28/10 8:16a.m.
Hatch boards -- Darrel Heirendt com-pac 16 SweetGeorgia Brown -- 5/28/10 1:52p.m.
Carl, Very Good Analysis! -- Bill Nolen, P-15 Babe -- 5/28/10 2:53p.m.


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