Oh, good grief... I HAVE to comment...

Posted By: Tom Scott, P-18
Date: 2/24/05 7:45p.m.

Report: outside forum guidelines

In Response To: Re: Turtling P-185 (Brad Benner, P-18 "Solstice", PA)

...So, lemme see. He's sailing an 18' dinghy on a reach in two foot seas with winds up to 18 knots with the (lightly ballasted - but nevertheless ballasted) centerboard full UP... ...and he's shocked that it capsized? ...And it also capsized on the mooring? Anyone want to bet the CB was raised there too? How many dinghies are suitable for being left on a mooring during thunderstorms? With no crew to act as "ballast" (...and the weighted board raised?) ...well, what could one reasonably assume might happen? Heck, even with the board down, I doubt it had enough weight to keep an unmanned dinghy upright in a Thunderstorm. Geesh. If I recall correctly, the P-185 I sailed on had a control line that held the board down as well (...a "preventer" of sorts) - but I could be wrong about that (old age) - or it could have been an owner "add-on". If a board "hold down line" is not a feature of the boat, then it should be - and that could be an issue for Precision Boatworks to address - but even that's not an issue in the instance of his capsize under sail. This fellow was sailing the P-185 in a manner that was not commensurate with his experience level. Period. And saying that the boat is "unsafe" above 15 knots is ridiculous. For some people, it could be "unsafe" in 8 knots, and others could easily handle 25 knots. It's not a simple "boat" issue - it's the "boat/skipper relationship" that's way out of whack here. To illustrate my point regarding the "boat/skipper relationship": My neighbor just bought a Corsair 36 trimaran. I would probably scare myself senseless (or worse) if I took that boat out in 18 knots of wind - and I consider myself a "good" sailor. But, I have limited experience in LARGE multi-hulls. The loads on rigging and gear are tremendous. The need to react quickly and correctly is amplified at the speeds this boat sails at. Errors can be expensive and or painful. While my neighbor is comfortable cruising around at 15 to 20+ knots of boat speed - I am not. Is the Corsair 36 unsafe? Well, if I'm driving it in a breeze, it just might be - but my neighbor handles it well. However, I sure don't "match" that boat too well. I appreciate that salesman, brokers, and marketers will advertise a variety of boats as "suitable" for new sailors, and I have no doubt that the P-185 was sold to this fellow as being suitable for a newbie. And, as a practical matter, it IS suitable for a "newbie" - it's simple, light, easy to rig, fast, wet, and fun. Problem is, there are all levels of "newbies", and the most dangerous type is the one who has "no fear", and even less sense. The inference I got from the write-up was that the fellow was "shocked" that a dinghy could capsize on a mooring, or in a stiff breeze - and his reaction indicates a fundamental lack of understanding or appreciation of the environment he is operating in. In the flying buisness, we called this a lack of "situational awareness" - and it really can kill you. Bottom Line: You don't buy a performance oriented, centerboard, planning dinghy and leave it on a mooring - or sail it in a strong breeze with the weighted CB fully retracted with your skill level low. On such a boat, the skipper is the single greatest safety feature. On the mooring, he wasn't there - but he exercised poor judgement if he didn't leave the board down, and didn't use (or provide) a means to keep it down. Arguably, leaving any dinghy on a mooring with the mast up when thunderstorms are possible is not the "best" choice. Regardless, I think we all should have the "right" to exercise poor judgement (...lord knows I have over the years!), but we shouldn't then deflect responsibility for our own actions. This is why I had to comment! I really do feel bad for the fellow, but he only has to look in the mirror to find out who caused this. It wasn't Precision Boatworks ...or Jim Taylor. (...But, if lawyers get involved, any outcome is possible. ) I have sailed the P-185, and I found to be a wonderful sailing boat - and very well mannered. It is not a boat I would leave on a mooring (CB version anyway) anywhere - and in a breeze, I would certainly appreciate and respect the potential for it to be capsized. If you are uncomfortable accepting that risk, you bought the wrong boat! Go buy a boat that is of a self-righting design instead! (...I think the Compac 16 is a great alternative!) Ok. I now return to my exile, and apologize for being so "opinionated" in this matter. I guess I still haven't learned my lesson! Anyway, I'm sure at least three of you here will have a different view, and be far more sympathetic than I am ...and that's fine. My pint is that the P-185 is not patently unsafe - but it is certainly capable of being handled in an unsafe manner. In fact, all of our boats (and lives) are suseptible to the "perils of unsafe operation" for that matter. We all need to appreciate that, and know that WE are responsible for whatever happens "out there". Tom Scott, P-18 #129 "Alert"